SOLVED Might Windows 10 be the cause???

[dustywoodworker]

I have recently made several changes and have just now come upon a problem that I have not been able to solve. I have purchased a new computer (Dell Studio XPS) that is different than my old computer in that it is SATA and has 3.0 USB ports.

I have three USB external hard drives that I had been using regularly with no difficulties. These are all PATA (IDT) hard drives if that might make a difference. The hard drives all provide their own DC power. Enough for the back ground.

Is there anything about Windows 10 that might contribute to the fact that I can not interface with the HDs. There is no indication in either the BIOS or Device Manager that the hard drives exist. When I do connect them (all three) I get a popup that reads essentially - "You have just connected a USB device that is not recognized".

 

[Comp Cmndo]

1. They are not PATA (IDE) drives, unless you installed them into a USB 3.0 enclosure.
2. USB drives may show in the BIOS under Boot Devices. or at the boot time.
3. Windows 10 1803 & 1809 have problems recognizing USB 3.0 devices.
https://www.tenforums.com/drivers-hardware/106837-usb-3-0-hub-showing-2-1-a-3.html#post1487133

https://win10.guru/win10-1809-circus-closed-for-intermission/

 

[Tim Locke]

I haven't seen a parallel interface drive for a lonnnnng time and certainly motherboards don't have PATA any more with those old cables marked master and slave! How old are these?

A quick check of Amazon shows that adapters are still made and cheap!

I wonder if W10 needs a specific driver. Google doesn't tell me.

 

[dustywoodworker]

I am not sure why you say they are not PATA drives. Neither the enclosures nor the drives have SATA connectors. All three of the enclosures have an interface board (internal) that mates with the drives while proving a power and data interface to the front of the enclosures. The data connection requires a cable that is clearly USB (on one end) and is something different (shape wise) on the other end.

The drives are not recognized (acknowledged) in the BIOS or in Device Manager.

Thank you for the link to the 1803 and 1809 revisions. I will study those to see if there is a clue as to what my problem is.

Incidently, I carried one of the external drives to a house of a friend who has an older computer running XP. That drive worked there. I retested here when I got back with no change in symptoms. This leads me to FIRMLY believe that my problem is a by product of either the revisions or USB compatibility.

How to resolve the issue is the problem.

 

[dustywoodworker]

I haven't seen a parallel interface drive for a lonnnnng time and certainly motherboards don't have PATA any more with those old cables marked master and slave! How old are these?

A quick check of Amazon shows that adapters are still made and cheap!

I wonder if W10 needs a specific driver. Google doesn't tell me.

You are correct. My motherboard does not have a PATA interface but the circuitry inside of the enclosures does.

I have had the drives out of all three enclosures. They are PATA and they all worked when I did System Updates before I decommissioned the old computer.

 

[Tim Locke]

You are correct. My motherboard does not have a PATA interface but the circuitry inside of the enclosures does.

I have had the drives out of all three enclosures. They are PATA and they all worked when I did System Updates before I decommissioned the old computer.

Was the 'old' computer running W10? You have proved that XP has drivers. Was the old machine W7? If so then that has drivers.

The new machine presumably does not have a USB 2 port anywhere.

 

[dustywoodworker]

There were actually two old computers that these external drives had operated in. One was XP from the get go and other was a Windows 7 upgraded from an XP. The new machine was Windows 10 from the get go.

The USB ports on the new machine are, for the moment, a question. There are ports on the back side that are blue (I presume USB 3.0). The ports on the front are not blue - therefore might be 2.0. Gotta check BUT might that make a difference. I thought USB was USB with nothing other tan speed differences between 2.0 and 3.0.

 

[Tim Locke]

I don't know the answer to that but it has been noted that some old devices don't work on USB 3 ....so it only takes a couple of minutes to try. And your blue plugs might be USB 3.1 not plain USB 3.
USB specifications by color

• White USB connector - USB 1.x. White Type A USB 1.x plug. ...
• Black USB connector - USB 2.x. Black Type A USB 2.x plug. ...
• Blue USB connector - USB 3.x. Blue Type A USB 3.x plug. ...
• Red or Yellow USB connector - Sleep and Charge. Red Type A USB Sleep and Charge plug.

Pretty sure that no old gear would work on Red or Yellow!

 

[dustywoodworker]

I have 2 (black) USB 2.0 ports, 4 (blue) 3.0 ports, 3 (white) 3.1 ports. The two 2.0 ports service the keyboard/mouse and the desk top speaker. This leaves 3.x ports only that I have been attempting to use with the external hard drives which all preceed USB 3.x.

Everything I read indicates that USB 3.x is backward compatible. This has been very interesting but has done nothing to help me access the data that resides on those old hard drives.

 

[Tim Locke]

OK. So have you tried unplugging the speaker and putting a disk drive in? You don't say.

 

[dustywoodworker]

OK. So have you tried unplugging the speaker and putting a disk drive in? You don't say.

Good thinking! I wish I could say that I thought of that. NO, I have not but will. Guess I was hung on the concept of backward compatibility.

 

[dustywoodworker]

Yes, I have now done that. It did not help.

I am not going to scrap mu IDE hard drives (along with the data that is onboard but I am going to discontinue the effort for now. All indications are that ALL of my IDE HDs are inoperative. I have a hard time believing that but I do not have the skill or the time to continue this pursuit.

I am going out today to purchase two new SATA External Hard Drives. Independent backup for each computer.

Thank you for your patience and assistance.

 

[Grizzly]

this may help:
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-USB-SATA-Adapter-USB2SATAIDE/dp/B000VS4HDM/

I use this to connect any PATA/IDE drive to my laptop. I do not know if this works with USB3 ports but since they are downwards compatible, I see no problem....
Anything I use externally, is from Startech. Never had any issues...

 

[dustywoodworker]

I was inclined to agree with you opinion of StarTech. That is why I purchased the PATA2SATA3 BiDirectional SATAIDE Converter Adapter from them. Unfortunately, it has done nothing to help me resolve my problem. Now that might indicate that I am the problem and not my HDs.

Using this a adapter in my situation with a number of IDE drives to test and a SATA only computer, my issue seems to be getting power to the drive. No IDE power interface in my computer and no adapter in the kit.

If I decide to pursue data recovery from these drives, I will likely purchase a "known good PATA drive just to verify my test approach. I hate giving up on any issue.

 

[Bighorn]

The older PATA/Parallel ATA drives require a 4-pin Molex socket on a cable/set of wires from the power supply for internal use or provided by the adapter kit [self-powered] for external use. SATA/Serial ATA drives require similar support but have a different design of the plug. Both scenarios use a second cable for data, 40-pin/80-conductor for the PATA or a smaller plug for the SATA.

The IDE reference here shows it to be the printed-circuit board attached to the drive [every modern drive has it]:
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/IDE
The use of IDE made it simpler in speech until the SATA drives came out which was when I first saw the PATA term used, easy ways to distinguish one type drive from the other.

 

[Garyw]

FWIW I just fired up an old PATA drive in a NexStar3 inclosure connected to my main system (1803), and it works fine.

EDIT: Works in either USB 2 or 3 ports.