Is Windows Defender good enough?

[JW09I4]

On the advice of a friend who is a professional IT person, I cancelled my subscription to AVG and went only with Windows Defender. Have not had a single problem in the two years since I switched. In his opinion, it's as good, if not better, than most commercial products.

The fact is is not good, but far worse than commercial products. Again, this information is extremely easy to find via google. Windows Defender, while far better in Windows 10 and a major improvement over Windows 8 & 7, it's still a horrendous solution, not once rising above the upper 80%'s for detection. This has been shown time and again by different credible independent testing companies.

I'm also not sure why any user is promoting that they "haven't seen any issues while using Windows Defender", as a decent piece of malware is malware that doesn't raise alarms or affect normal usage.

• For example, a botnet could receive a command from a C & C server to wake an infected PC from sleep and engage in a DDOS attack; or malware could data mine during down time when the PC isn't being utilized.

 

[JW09I4]

My computers are invisible to the Internet; period.

This isn't determined by the PC, but the router. Every PC has multiple ports open at any given time, and it's a router than makes a downstream device not visible to WAN, not the other way around.

• Even if one chooses to block on their PC Inbound ICMPv4 on messages 8, 13, 15, & 17, most don't manage their firewall with loopback and port filtering.
  • If a device is infected by malware, and it's not caught before execution, without port and loopback filtering, it will likely be approved by the firewall to allow all inbound & outbound traffic from the malware.

• Most users also allow UPnP on both their PC and router, something that while convenient, it's a security nightmare, and still to this day many users still utilize WEP, WPA, and WPS on their wifi routers, all of which are insecure (WPA2 [CCMP] is the only secure encryption method)

 

[Bif]

85% of prevention is safe browsing habits, no p2p sharing, don't click on unknown/suspicious links and staying off those xxx sites.
These are not be accusations by any stretch, just sage advice on staying clean.
GRC is a good site but designed to sell you Spinrite..I only use Defender and all was green on GRC...

 

[Janet EC]

Hi all,

I watched the video from Britec (link below), he dumped several malware files on his W10 and it found them all.

So, I guess my question is, can it really be trusted over other AV software?. (I am using it btw and have not had a problem!).

My system is fully up-to-date with the latest build:

Windows 10 Home.
Version 1703.
OS Build 1063.138.

https://malwaretips.com/threads/bri...-offer-enough-protection-in-windows-10.63482/

 

[JW09I4]

85% of prevention is safe browsing habits, no p2p sharing, don't click on unknown/suspicious links and staying off those xxx sites.

Yes & no...

• Let's say you do a google image search for say an icon, simply previewing the icon is enough to load malware from a malicious jpg on whatever server the image being viewed is stored on.
• Many sites have malicious adverts on their sites, so simply accessing a web page would allow for malware to infect the PC.
  • This also applies to mistyped URLs
• Most malware by normal usage today occurs via a malicious email macro or attachment, or by installing things on an Android device from outside the Play store, including the xposed framework and modules.

Also, not sure if you were replying to my prior post or not, but if so, UPnP has nothing to do with P2P sharing​

 

[Janet EC]

I am using Windows Defender on my old Vista PC that I upgraded to Windows 7 then upgraded to Windows 10, and have had no problems. I also use Defender on a refurbished PC at our ministry office and have not had any problems at all (other than the problems caused by my "computer illiterate" co-workers)

 

[JW09I4]

I am using Windows Defender on my old Vista PC that I upgraded to Windows 7 then upgraded to Windows 10, and have had no problems. I also use Defender on a refurbished PC at our ministry office and have not had any problems at all (other than the problems caused by my "computer illiterate" co-workers)

Why does everyone assume because they've had no problems with Windows Defender that it's a good idea to use it? I don't know how many times it needs to be repeated:

IT IS A FACT WINDOWS DEFENDER WAS HORRENDOUS ON WINDOWS 7 & 8, AND WHILE WINDOWS 10'S VERSION IS BETTER, IT STILL HAS ONLY EVER SCORED IN THE HIGH 80'S FOR DETECTION BY NUMEROUS INDEPENDENT TESTING COMPANIES.
​

Windows Defender is not a secure application to use and should not be utilized under any circumstances, especially when far more effective, free commercial software exists.

• Please do your own due diligence and simply use google to see the independent testing and how it fares when compared to other commercially available software.

• Just an FYI: top commercial software scores in the high 90s for detection, usually upwards of 98.5%+
  • So if Windows Defender has never scored higher than the high 80's, why would anyone believe it's secure and able to be relied upon?

• For those who ran it on Windows 7 & 8, those Windows Defender versions had a detection rate in the 60% range.

 

[Janet EC]

I am on the fast ring and at build 15063.rs2 and check definitions daily. YESTERDAY, I open an incognito page and immediately alarms go off. "Microsoft" says that I need to call 888...... as I have been infected, full screen, very authenticate looking and warning me that I have 2 minutes to call or they will "protect their internet network and disable my computer"--real audio. Real official sounding and looking.

The day before I had done an system image backup, so I shut down and restored the image. THEREFORE, WD missed that one! Going back to Malwarebyte and Avast until they break with an Win10 update.

 

[JW09I4]

@Janet EC Your past few posts have simply been posting a reply that's a quote of someone else with no response...

 

[Janet EC]

I get that "fake" page even on my phone. It's not a virus, just a fake page. I just back out of it, or if it is on my desktop PC, I simply hold the power button down until the PC turns off. I think those messages happen when you visit certain pages. Not sure how.

 

[Janet EC]

Why does everyone assume because they've had no problems with Windows Defender that it's a good idea to use it? I don't know how many times it needs to be repeated:

IT IS A FACT WINDOWS DEFENDER WAS HORRENDOUS ON WINDOWS 7 & 8, AND WHILE WINDOWS 10'S VERSION IS BETTER, IT STILL HAS ONLY EVER SCORED IN THE HIGH 80'S FOR DETECTION BY NUMEROUS INDEPENDENT TESTING COMPANIES.
​

Windows Defender is not a secure application to use and should not be utilized under any circumstances, especially when far more effective, free commercial software exists.

• Please do your own due diligence and simply use google to see the independent testing and how it fares when compared to other commercially available software.

• Just an FYI: top commercial software scores in the high 90s for detection, usually upwards of 98.5%+
  • So if Windows Defender has never scored higher than the high 80's, why would anyone believe it's secure and able to be relied upon?

• For those who ran it on Windows 7 & 8, those Windows Defender versions had a detection rate in the 60% range.

 

[Janet EC]

You don't have to yell about it. If you think you're trying to help someone, be nicer about it. You need a little less criticism.

 

[JW09I4]

You don't have to yell about it. If you think you're trying to help someone, be nicer about it. You need a little less criticism.

I've stated it in posts #16, #21, then again in #31 with users sill posting afterwards singing factually inaccurate praises for Windows Defender. How many times should it need to be stated before users take 30s to utilize google and fact check the information?

People do realize a user looking to get an objective view of Windows Defender will happen across this thread at some point, and it provides a disservice to all users when users are provided with factually accurate information, then choose to disregard that and post something stating the direct opposite.

 

[coover]

No, Windows Defender should not be utilized, as it's not reliable.​

Windows Defender has consistently ranked in the upper 80% discovery range, which is horrendous for an antivirus/antimalware software. The best gauge of which product one should use should not be taken from some random user's opinion, but from independent testing done by reputable third party organizations, such as PC Mag or Virus Bulletin.

• Simply google something similar to "Best 2017 AntiVirus" and "Windows 10 Windows Defender accuracy"

When looking for internet security suites or antivirus & antimalware programs (they're not the thing and both are required for security), one should focus on high detection and low false positives, combined with HIPS and sandboxing.

• Windows Defender will become reliable over time due to the tens of millions Microsoft has dumped into their threat detection departments, however it will likely not be on par with well known antimalware/antivirus companies until at least 2020, if not beyond.

If Windows Defender is so bad, why is it that I rarely encounter a working virus on any of my 8 computers (checked at least once a week by online virus checks and the free versions of malwarebytes, and superantimalware, while other folks, using "top rated' anti-virus software end up with hundreds, if not thousand or malware or viruses. i see it all the time when folks bring there computers to me to fix and that their "top rated" anti-virus software is no longer functioning (because of an unhandled virus).

Yes, the "top rated' software may find more virused than Windows Defender, but does it actually do a better job if the user is not careful and checking. Additionally, most AV software makes the machine slower, while Defender, being a part of the Operating System, causes no slow ups.

Defender, along with vigilance, is enough! The best AV software, without vigilance, will fail.

 

[JW09I4]

If Windows Defender is so bad, why is it that I rarely encounter a working virus on any of my 8 computers (checked at least once a week by online virus checks and the free versions of malwarebytes, and superantimalware, while other folks, using "top rated' anti-virus software end up with hundreds, if not thousand or malware or viruses. i see it all the time when folks bring there computers to me to fix and that their "top rated" anti-virus software is no longer functioning (because of an unhandled virus).

Yes, the "top rated' software may find more virused than Windows Defender, but does it actually do a better job if the user is not careful and checking. Additionally, most AV software makes the machine slower, while Defender, being a part of the Operating System, causes no slow ups.

Defender, along with vigilance, is enough! The best AV software, without vigilance, will fail.

I don't know, nor do I care.

The facts are the facts, and I care far more about facts than a user's factually inaccurate opinions. The fact is numerous independent testing has proven, year after year, Windows Defender is horrendous at mitigating malware exposure, and not once has it ever scored above ~86% detection threshold.

• You clearly have access to the internet, so instead of taking several minutes to write what you have, why not utilize 30s to perform a google search and view the independent results for yourself.

As to your second and third paragraphs, they're both factually inaccurate and demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge of what you're trying to speak to.

Edited by Regedit32 (Moderator)

 

[st_worm2]

Just FYI, here are AV-Test.org's latest test results (from 10/2016) of Windows Defender 4.10 (the most up-to-date version of WD).

https://www.av-test.org/en/antiviru...-2016/microsoft-windows-defender-4.10-164047/

The overall protection seems very good actually, but the 0-Day protection (90%) still leaves a lot to be desired when compared with the industry average (98%).

--David

 

[Trouble]

I have little patience for ignorance

And we have very little patience for insults.
I'll ask you once to please refrain from personal attacks.
Everyone has opinions. They're like...... well you know what they're like.
AND
Everyone can find some data, somewhere, compiled by well paid statisticians that will support their side of an argument.
There are very likely, some very robust and effective antivirus / malware solution available commercially, if you can afford them, as well as some free alternatives as potential options.
Pick something you like and enjoy.
Personally I use Windows Defender, augmented with Malwarebytes Premium, and.......
I'm pretty sure that doesn't make me or my opinion such as it is, "ignorant".
Regards
Randy

 

[gapi]

I relied on defender solely for years and then got some Mal or Virus infections that took it down hard and had to run Malwarebytes to get rid of it.
Defender does a good job of prevention but removal if it gets through is another matter.
After my bacon was saved I got into disc imaging and man is that another thing you may want to consider.

 

[Wolfie]

I relied on defender solely for years and then got some Mal or Virus infections that took it down hard and had to run Malwarebytes to get rid of it.

Hi gapi,

how long ago was that?, I ask because when I tried AVG Free for example, it would whine about something every 5 minutes, using the same surfing habits with WD; I hear nothing from it?.

I for one try to keep security in mind when surfing (this has been pointed out in other replies), safe browsing habits and not just downloading from anywhere without first checking it is important for all of us (I got my wrists slapped recently for posting a link or two without thoroughly checking it out myself! ). I think for the normal user, Windows Defender does a good job. (my personal opinion).

There are many videos on YouTube about Windows Defender but many are out-of-date now as they are from 2016, I will continue to use it until such time that I get a major bug and see how well WD responds!.

I have everything backed up on an external drive and all my important stuff is secure there (said he hopefully! ).

Safe surfing everyone.

 

[gapi]

@Wolfie, I have been running the paid version of Malwarebytes (MWB) for almost a year now and have only received occasional warnings about sites I have visited possibly containing harm. No nagging "I just saved your butt" messages. I get scan completed popups over the tray occasionally if I happend to be there.

Malwarebytes is a different layer of protection than WD and they do not conflict. You can run the trial version and see how you like it. I rarely know its there.
MWB is resource friendly not dragging performance down.