SOLVED OS Cloned from HD to SSD but now WHAT?

[Loves2Hike]

Before ordering my new Inspiron 7559, I read online that another user had been very happy after upgrading to 16 GB RAM and cloning the OS from the 1 TB 5500 RPM HD to a Samsung 500 GB SSD using Samsung's Data Migration Software (and keeping both drives, using the HD for storage). However, now that I have already cloned the upgraded Windows 10 OS, I read that another user started experiencing major issues after cloning with Samsung's Data Migration Software, because Windows updates then did not know where to go on the SSD, and he recommended a clean install of Windows 10 to the SSD? Arrrrgh! So this is where I am at:

1. I upgraded Windows 10 to the latest version and uninstalled all the bloatware and adware that I did not want. I ran sfcscan and optimized the HD to make sure everything was in good shape.
2. I did install a number of free programs onto the HD (CCleaner, Revo Uninstaller, Thumbnails, Firefox, Samsung Data Migration, etc.)
3. I used Samsung's Data Migration Software and was following their online manual but the Data Migration program never gave me the option to select which files to migrate - and I tried looking around, but it just went right to cloning - so it cloned not just the OS, but all the programs I had installed to-date (all of which are free, but those will update often, so I thought they should just be on the HD, not on the SSD).

The data migration completed but now what?

I have not changed the BIOS or attempted to start the system from the OS clone on the SSD because now I am afraid that I should not have used the Samsung Data Migration software after all - that this will lead to issues with the OS when it tries to install future updates, and that because the Samsung software also cloned all the free programs I had installed, those will have issues updating too.

I need to finish my taxes this weekend (oh, joy) and then have a project to finish (which requires that I install CS5 InDesign onto my new laptop's HD) before I can do anything time-consuming - like installing Windows 10 directly to the SSD (which I want to avoid, but will do if I have to, if that is truly the only way to ensure proper operation when updates come out). For the next week, I am thinking I will just manually remove the SSD drive and use the OS on the HD for now (so that the computer does not get confused, because having the OS on both will confuse it according to other users)? Meanwhile, I hope to get more experienced forum feedback on what I should do next, because I am in way above my head!


I had NO idea it was going to be this complicated to have a secondary SSD to run the OS! Part of me wants to forget using the SSD altogether, but then I would be working with the very slow 5500 RPM HD only, which sort of defeats the purpose of getting a new laptop! Oh HELP!

So:

• Do I leave the cloned OS on the SSD and clean the OS from the HD? What about the free programs that Samsung's Data Migration also cloned - will those create problems when they try to update? Do I have to reset the BIOS settings to use the cloned OS on the SSD and do I have to unplug the HD when doing this the first time to ensure that the computer isn't confused about where the OS is actually located (or will the BIOS settings take care of that)?

• If yes to the above, how do I remove just the OS files from the HD and not touch the recovery partition that is on the HD?

• Do I redo the cloning with a different program - or is there another version of Samsung's Data Migration software that WILL give me the option to clone only the OS? I downloaded it directly from the Samsung website, so am not sure why it never provided the option of choosing which files to clone.

• Some online users mentioned a few other alternatives for cloning - is there something better that is free and reliable that gives me the option to select which files to clone and is that a viable option at this point? (Will it overwrite the already cloned files?)

• Do I have to do a clean install of Windows 10 to the SSD - and if so, how do I do that with the OS still on the HD? I really did not want to have to do this because I like my trimmed-down Windows 10 (no CandyCrush, etc.) because it still has some of the Dell-specific programs included that I don't mind having on there.

Has anyone else successfully cloned their OS from the HD to a secondary SSD drive using Samsung Data Migration and if so, can you speak to the software glitch of not having the option to select which files to clone? Will this cause issues, since it cloned all the other installed programs too? Can I redo the cloning to just include the OS? Also, have you had issues when programs (especially Windows) need to update to the SSD? Is it true that the program files won't be able to update successfully onto a SSD because the SSD moves the data all over the place and cannot be readily found?

Any informed and experienced suggestions are most appreciated.

 

[Tim Locke]

I have cloned drives using the Samsung software** Any cloning software will just build the new drive with all the partitions, software and files that are on the original...it can be a problem if the old drive has more data than the size of the new one...a common thing with SSDs

After cloning the SSD must replace the original HDD as it needs to be drive C. The SSD is now the master drive.
Then the machine has to be booted without the old drive connected. This is usually not a problem on a laptop as they only have one place for a drive but on a desktop if the old HDD is connected the machine will get very confused...ask me how I know. After the first boot and the machine is running with the new drive then in the laptop case, the old drive can be mounted in an enclosure and reformatted to remove any OS and any recovery partitions. On a desktop, just plugged into a SATA slot.

**Paragon make a free edition of their disk management package that will clone drives, I have also used this and I prefer it.

 

[Saltgrass]

I have not used Data Migration software but is it actually cloning the drive and making it boot capable?

What model Samsung drive did you get?

You can move an install to another drive by using a System Image which may need a certain size drive, as was mentioned. You can use a Win 10 recovery drive to put the new drive in a Factory condition. You can download a Factory Image from Dell. Or you can do a clean install of Win 10.

Any of these methods should give you a bootable replacement. But again, as mentioned, leaving the old drive available does cause problems. I always recommend removing it during the install so you know that install is good. Then leave the drive removed as a backup or clean it so it is no longer a boot drive.

If you were willing to attach a Disk Management picture it would help answer some questions regarding your current configuration.

 

[Tim Locke]

In my experience the Samsung software or Paragon's equivalent leaves you with a bootable drive.

CAVEAT. I have never done this on a UEFI machine not one with a GPT formatted drive....my machines are too old in dog years for these things.

 

[Loves2Hike]

Thank you both for your responses. Since this is a new system, even though the HD is a 1 TB drive and the SSD is 500 GB, have only the OS and free programs installed - no documents or files of any kind yet. Just programs. I had read to not store most programs on the SSD because it's writing to the SSD that wears them out but that is confusing to me because anytime a program (the OS or any other program) updates, is that not going to be writing to the SSD drive? Obviously less than if I were keeping and moving documents on it, but still writing to it. My plan was to just have the OS and programs on the SSD and keep documents and photos on the HD.

 

[Loves2Hike]

I will definitely remove the HD during boot up, as suggested.

 

[Tim Locke]

Thank you both for your responses. Since this is a new system, even though the HD is a 1 TB drive and the SSD is 500 GB, have only the OS and free programs installed - no documents or files of any kind yet. Just programs. I had read to not store most programs on the SSD because it's writing to the SSD that wears them out but that is confusing to me because anytime a program (the OS or any other program) updates, is that not going to be writing to the SSD drive? Obviously less than if I were keeping and moving documents on it, but still writing to it. My plan was to just have the OS and programs on the SSD and keep documents and photos on the HD.

Does this laptop have space for 2 drives? If so then after you have replaced the original drive with the SSD, format the old drive and put it in the 2nd slot. Then you can ,through Windows 10, arrange that your personal data is placed on the old drive not on the SSD.

As for 'wearing out' an SSD, that will not be a problem for years. It is a slow process and what happens is that the deep down memory cells on an SSD lose their ability to be deleted and re-written. So, all SSDs now are 'overprovisioned'. That is the actual drive has as much as 10% space that is invisible and the drive electronics can spot a 'wearin g out' area and replace it with some of the invisible space. So you probably have several years of regular use from the SSD even if all your data is on there as well as the OS. Note that it is not reading that does the wearing out, it is the delete-rewrite cycle that is the way data is written to a drive.


If your Inspiron only has one drive bay then I would just use the SSD for everything. Put the HDD in a USB enclosure for backups. In a few years clone the SSD onto a 1TB SSD which will for sure have halved in price yet again and carry on!

 

[Loves2Hike]

Thank you, Tim. The Inspiron has 2 drive bays, one for the HD and one for the SSD, the second which I purchased separately. I don't think the slots for each are the same - I think one is specific to the HD and the other is more of a plug - looks similar to what the RAM goes in to. Thank you for clarifying that the SSDs are not as fragile as some people were making them out to be! That's a relief!

 

[Data]

Thank you for clarifying that the SSDs are not as fragile as some people were making them out to be! That's a relief

True, but its best to avoid unnecessary and excessive writes to the SSD.
For instance Firefox will trash your SSD by saving sessions every 15000 milliseconds, if you have 10 tabs open, this can grow over the course of the day to dozens of Gigabytes in write operations per day. This is bad and can be changed to better values like 3600000 milliseconds.
Google Chrome is equally terrible and so are most browsers.

The over-provisioning on most drives varies by manufacturer and technology used, I set around 10% for my OP on both Samsung 850PRO/EVO.

The over provisioning is used by the SSD Wear Levelling to swap bad sectors, and to be honest, I prefer to do away with 20GB of over provisioning, since even fully installed all software I require and because I use other hard drives for backups and store most files, scratch disks, pagefile etc. in any case I never would use more than 50% of disk.

You dont have to fear trashing the SSD but if you dont tame some softwares, you can be sure that the SSD performance will suffer not to mention lifespan.

 

[Tim Locke]

I found some images of the insides of the Inspiron. Looks like that the SSD is an M2 type is that correct? ( a small board about an inch wide and 2-3" long with a connector on one and and a hole for a mounting screw at the other.)

 

[Data]

Those are some M2 SSD's examples

 

[Tim Locke]

Yep, too early in the morning to go and find the images and the inside of the Inspiron image I found is huge so I didn't post it.

I presume but I don't know that the Inspiron can boot from the M2 or the HDD. If it were my machine I'd replace the HDD with an SSD anyway.,

 

[Data]

I presume but I don't know that the Inspiron can boot from the M2 or the HDD. If it were my machine I'd replace the HDD with an SSD anyway.,

Yes it should be able to, if you can add a M2 SSD you can boot from it, however you will need to go change the boot order of devices in the BIOS and save.

Once that is done and you are booting from SSD, the HDD, You should keep it it will come in handy.

For instance, I created a partition (formatted in NTFS) at end of my secondary HDD, that is literally big enough to host the pagefile.sys (set to fixed size pagefile) nothing else, then I assigned letter Z: and moved the pagefile there/rebooted, then I hid this partition from File explorer with a registry tweak.

Hide drive Z:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\Explorer]
"NoDrives"=dword:02000000

Show drive Z:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\Explorer]
"NoDrives"=-

Sky is the limit of what can be done, like tmp folders, scratch disks and non essential programs.

 

[Loves2Hike]

Yes, the SSD in my Inspiron is a M2 which looks just like the ones pictured. I plan to keep the 1 TB HD as well for storage - and it sounds like I should also keep Firefox and Chrome on the HD drive not on the SSD. I wanted to use the SSD only for the OS, Microsoft Office 365 program files and Creative Suite CS 5.5 program files (not documents created). My understanding was that using the SSD for the OS and large programs would increase the performance (start-up speed in particular). I planned to keep all documents, photos, videos, etc. on my HD. I also use redundant hard drives rather than the Cloud for sensitive information.

 

[Data]

Startup speed, wont change much no matter how much you have installed, of course if you install too many programs that add startup entries this has some effect, having more or less installed otherwise wont matter as the fragmentation of files isnt something you worry about with SSD's like with old HDD's

 

[Saltgrass]

The Inspiron 7559 is SATA only so the M.2 drive would have to be a SATA version. So you would need a Samsung 850 version. If you installed a 960 version, it will probably not work.

Otherwise, if you cloned the drive, remove the other one and it should boot. If all you did was migrate files, it may not boot.

 

[Loves2Hike]

Yes, I have the Samsung 850 version (M.2 SATA). I did clone but I expected to be able to clone just the OS, not all the program files. I have read all sorts of comments online and it seems like - despite what the Samsung Owners Manual showed - the Samsung Migration software only clones everything from the HDD to SSD. So, in order to just have the OS, I need to remove all the programs that I installed on the HDD and clone just the OS. I did not want to do a clean install of Windows 10, because I did want to preserve some of the Dell programs.

All of this seems so much more complicated than I expected! I thought I could just install the Samsung 850 EVO M.2 into the internal bay, clone the OS only (that I would be allowed to specify what files to clone, which was not the case), change the BIOS setting so that the computer would know to boot from the SSD not the HDD and that would be it!

But apparently, any kind of cloning software will still clone the entire contents of the HDD (all programs included, not just the OS) and - even with resetting the BIOS - I would need to do a clean system install on the SDD, unplug the HDD, and then delete everything on the HDD in order to not confuse the computer about where system updates should be stored?

 

[Tim Locke]

System updates ( OS updates) will always be on the OS drive. MOST other software you install will install at least part of itself on that drive as well as it will go to Program files or Program files (x86) I wouldn't worry about it, the SSD will still last for years. Once you are up then change the location of Documents, Pictures, Music and Downloads over to the HDD.

 

[Data]

Well, there are ways to backup only what you need, but this involves a great deal of careful selection and a a lot of work.

For instance Acronis True Image, you can backup folders, which means you could backup only what you want, but you need to backup all the related folders elsewhere in other locations. Not for the faint of heart or inexperienced users.

It would be a lot easier to restore your Windows 10 keeping your Dell programs and update windows, backup, clone, and done?

I think you are turning a simple task into a overly complicated task, prone to error and not worth the time and effort.

 

[Loves2Hike]

Hi Data, I would prefer to keep it simple, for sure, but I just am a SSD newbie, so I am not clear on how to restore Windows 10 (with the Dell programs) to the SSD as you mentioned. Would that mean going to the Dell website and doing
"Reinstall Windows 10 to the Dell factory image using the Windows Recovery Environment (WinRE)" but installing on the SSD not the HD? http://www.dell.com/support/article...tall-windows-10-on-your-dell-computer?lang=EN

This may be a dumb question, but will the Dell website automatically install the OS in the correct format for the SSD? Or, is the best way to restore the Dell Factory Image to the HD and then clone to the SSD using data migration software?

Once I install the Dell Factory Image to the SSD, can I still use PowerShell or CCleaner to configure the OS the way I want it (removing Candy Crush, Sports, News and other stuff I do not want) or should I do that on the HDD and then clone to the SSD to avoid unnecessary erasing to SSD?

Dell Customer Support said that installing an SSD also requires changing the BIOS settings to avoid later issues bu they could not instruct me on the step-by-step. (BTW, I just checked under the F2 start-up settings and it says that the Samsung SSD is already being recognized as the first drive with the Toshiba HD as the second drive ).

Specific guidance on the above questions is much appreciated! Thank you!