Win10 1903 update causes loss of network...

[Tim Barker]

Appears to be a driver problem though I tried the most up-to-date Realtek driver (Version 10.38.118.2019 dated 18th Nov 2019) to no avail. Lose both wifi and LAN access. In looking through the web it seems the update is certainly not leading edge and network issues were caused before with certain types of PCs (particularly portables/tablets) though these appear to have been 'solved' from what I can see. Happens each time Windows tries to update to the point where I have stopped the Windows Update Service and disabled it. Won't go back there until somebody can show me a way to get through the update with working access to the networks. There seems to have been a newer version that solved some of these earlier issues but if one cannot access the newer update due to an inoperable network I'm not sure what use such a 'workaround' really is.

System consists of a Fujitsu Notebook SH772, certainly not a common PC but it was one of the first ultra-portable lightweight machines at the time (2011 or 2012, I think). Getting to the point of getting another but loathe to do it immediately and it looks like Fujitsu, in their wisdom, no longer support it for drivers or the like and in fact, though the serial number is recognised by their software, it just aborts on the next 'update' step. Shame it they were better at support I would get another new machine as this one has been a reliable workhorse. The only really good support was with a battery issue where they replaced the battery free of charge, shipped to Europe, when it failed after 4-5 years of use due to a general recall of said items.

balance of system:-
Samsung EVO 1Tb hard drive, no DVD/CD, otherwise stock standard.
Intel i7-3520M @ 2.90GHz
16Gb RAM
running Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

Software
Windows 10 1809, build 17763.1039

Current Drivers:-
Network
Intel Centrino Advanced -N 6205 (version 15.18.0.1)
Realtek PCIe GbE Family Controller (version 10.38.118.2019)
A whole list of WAN Miniports whose drivers are "the best driver for your device".
nothing else appears to be related to the issue but then may be.

Anybody have the same issue? Or had the issue and managed to overcome it? Thought this was best in 'Drivers' but could equally go in 'Networking' or 'Windows' or 'Updates'

 

[Wolfie]

There have been problems with the network manager lately, right click the network icon in the taskbar and then on "Troubleshoot".

You should also upgrade when possible to Win 10 version 1909.

How to upgrade Windows 10 to the latest version

PLEASE TAKE NOTE THAT AN UPGRADE IS NOT AN UPDATE PER SE; SEE THE LINK CREATED BY @Regedit32 BELOW FOR MORE DETAILS ON UPDATING AFTER CURRENT CUMULATIVE UPDATE. https://www.windows10forums.com/threads/windows-updates-after-kb4016871-reminder.13030/ See also: the following links about updating...

www.windows10forums.com

 

[Tim Barker]

Wolfie,
Many thanks for this and the included link, my first question would have been, how do I skip a version which doesn't give me access to the web?! I'll look through this link as I certainly tried all the "Troubleshooting" options on the 3 attempts to upgrade to 1903 and interestingly the Device Manager shows no issues with any of the network adapters though there is nothing connecting with the Wifi 'card' (right clicking on the Realtek drier shows it to be working 'properly') or the hard wired network 'card' (similar).

Mind you when I looked at 'System Info' just now (on build 1809) it gives a more interesting breakdown of the system which I might also try on 1903 but then I might just skip this after looking at your link and check SI there if I have the same problem with the network drivers.

 

[Tim Barker]

Ran through the links specified and still no luck, this time it updated to 1909 as you suggested. No network access with either 1903 or 1909 with either wifi or LAN. Wifi connects with the router but there is no internet which is odd as all IP configuration is showing as correct and the normal settings are visible, including DNS settings and router IP. I haven't tried pinging the router or other PCs on the network (or phones attached to wifi), perhaps I should but I don't want to go through the 2hr process only to have to reverse it again 30 minutes later.

Tried using wushowhide.cab but the first time it only indicated the entire update as being able to be hidden not a list of drivers and other programmes as the links above suggested. Now it shows no updates are available.

After rolling back to 1809 a more interesting phenomenon was to see that version 1909 appeared to be the most recent update in the list of updates and there was no available updates showing in Windows Update. Settings->About confirmed I was back to 1809 build 17763.1039. As it says, Windows Update indicates "You’re currently running a version of Windows that’s nearing the end of service. We recommend you update to the most recent version of Windows 10 to get the latest features and security improvements". Well that ain't going to happen unless I can get the network to work after the update.

One of the problems is the inability to do any work in fixing the PC as it is not on any network so it cannot look for drivers or even query web pages such as this to look for ways around...

 

[Wolfie]

Hi Tim,

I can really only recommend that you reset your PC (choose keep my files and data), you will lose installed apps but you can re-install several at once if you go here:

Ninite - Install or Update Multiple Apps at Once

The easiest, fastest way to update or install software. Ninite downloads and installs programs automatically in the background.

ninite.com

To reset:

https://www.windows10forums.com/articles/reset-windows-10-from-within-windows.13/

 

[Tim Barker]

Thanks again, my concern is only that if I reset to the new version and the networking continues not to function then I have an effectively dead PC as I suspect the rollback to the prior version is not possible after the reset. As it is the main PC in the house and has all my mail and other programmes running on it then I'm forced into making an upgrade of the physical equipment quickly. I'm almost there but still looking for the right machine.

On the positive side I do have the system and data backed up in two sets of backups so should be able to do another current backup to have a completely up-to-date copy. I would assume that it would thus be possible to rollback the software (non-MS) without too much difficulty but wonder how much of the necessary Windows files don't or can't get copied across due to access restrictions (registry?). I cannot say I have ever tried to do that. To be honest I've never been in a position where I've had to use a complete backup to restore a system, the odd file yes but not the complete O/S with files.

 

[Tim Barker]

maybe if I reset 1809, reinstall apps, then upgrade and see whether this works then rollback if not might be the way to go. I would assume that 1809 should still work once reset. I'll investigate how much work is required in reinstalling apps (and where the original apps are as some were on disc, I think).

 

[ClippyBeer]

I had an issue with a Dell Zino HD 400 PC Wifi driver when I upgraded to Windows 10 x64 1903. The driver it installed for the on board Dell WLAN 1397 Mini card just wouldn't stay connected. This PC came with Windows 7 x64 Pro and had no issues on the same Wifi network. I fought with this for a week and finally gave up and ended up purchasing a USB Realtek Wifi adapter that came with its own drivers. It's working perfectly so far after disabling the built-in Wifi. Like you, I ran into the same hurdle where Dell has no Windows 10 drivers for this vintage 2009 PC. This may not be what you want to hear but you may have to purchase a newer GbE adapter that has its own drivers to restore connectivity.

 

[Tim Barker]

Good suggestion and, as always, thinking out of the box might just provide the easy solution. Easy to find out as I just happen to have added a new Gbit USB network adapter (or 2) to my collection of hardware for some Raspberry As that I need to hard wire as the thickness of the walls are proving to be problematic. I might also have a USB wifi connector somewhere (why didn't I think of that before). I'll let you know if that works although I might also try the reset first, though I suspect that won't work. Thanks,

 

[Wolfie]

Another option is to get the latest version of Win 10 (currently 19.09) and do a clean install, if that doesn't work for you, you can reinstall 1809 again. You will of course have to be careful with your files if you haven't done a backup of them!.

See also:

https://www.windows10forums.com/threads/re-install-w10-and-keep-your-files-app-data-intact.15825/

 

[ClippyBeer]

You can purchase a good USB Wifi adapter on either Ebay or Amazon for under $10. I bought 2, one for a laptop running XP and for my Dell HTPC with Windows 10. It is AC600 and comes with a removable swivel antenna (I keep the antenna connected for better reception). Based on the Realtek RT8811CU chipset It supports 802.11a, b, g, n, ac in 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands.

If you have a modern AC router this is definitely the way to go.
It definitely is an improvement on the Dell's built-in WLAN 1397 which was 802.11n 2.4GHz. Even though my router is in a different room about 50 feet away and through a wall Speedtest gives me ~25Mbs whereas the built-in gave me ~5Mbs from the same router.

Again this will not magically speed up your Wifi. A lot of factors come into play specifically your router's capabilities, distance, whether it's through walls and floors. It is definitely worth investing in a good AC1200 or better router and not use the one provided by your ISP which are usually the most basic model and in many cases will charge you a rental fee every month.

I have tested this adapter successfully in Windows XP, 7 and 10. Supposedly it also supports Linux but I haven't tried. Setup was simple - you run the setup program from the included CD and when it's finished you plug in the adapter. Once the driver setup is done you select the wireless network to connect to. Done. Perfect for a PC that you want to add Wifi to without installing an internal PCI card or want to upgrade from a laptop's built-in 802.11g.

 

[Tim Barker]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I already had 2 spare USB wifi adapters AND 3 new gigabit network adapters that I had purchased for some Raspberry 'A's that I needed to hardwire so I thought I would try these. I thought that I had actually switched off the auto update but it asked me again last night to update to 1909 and I thought I would try all of the above after the update to see whether this helped. To no avail. Not one of the adapters worked on the new install and, of course, with no internet connection the search for a driver that works is impossible.

Stuck.

Only way out now seems to be a complete new install of 1909 and the potential for a new doorstop if the same happens and there is no return available the working version of 1809 build17763.1039 which I am currently on. Or I stay as I am.

Tim.

 

[Tim Barker]

Checked all of the drivers for the various network devices being connected and all were the most up-to-date. Tried again with the upgrade with no luck. That is it - Windows Update Service being stopped and not to be run again. ONLY SOLUTION that doesn't involve the potential to brick the PC and stay with Windows.

 

[davehc]

Your earlier post stated that you were connected to the router with WIFi, but no internet connection.

The Windows 10 Os does not and cannot, alter anything in the router. It does no offer drivers for it either.

The biggest culprit, if it happened after an update, is the firewall/Defender.. Try in the first instance, disabling both an see if you have a connection.
Only other option is to clear the cache. In a command prompt type netsh winsock reset .

As you say it works when you roll back the update, then we can assume, without doubt, that there is no software problem with the router.

 

[Wolfie]

Hi Tim,

too quickly install a bunch of apps, use the following link, just select what you want:

https://ninite.com/

 

[ClippyBeer]

It seems odd that NONE of the network adapaters you tried have worked with Windows 10 - for all of Windows 10's shortcomings it does have the largest database of drivers than any of its predecessors so it's rare that you will get an 'Unknown Device' in Device Manager. Sometimes you will get a faulty driver but that's usually solved by either updating or installing a newer device as in my case. Tell us more about your network so we can help you better. Do you have any other devices connected to your router? Are they ethernet or WIFI? Did you purchase the router or is provided by your cable company?

 

[Tim Barker]

working backwards as it makes the most sense,

It seems odd that NONE of the network adapaters you tried have worked with Windows 10 - for all of Windows 10's shortcomings it does have the largest database of drivers than any of its predecessors so it's rare that you will get an 'Unknown Device' in Device Manager. Sometimes you will get a faulty driver but that's usually solved by either updating or installing a newer device as in my case. Tell us more about your network so we can help you better. Do you have any other devices connected to your router? Are they ethernet or WIFI? Did you purchase the router or is provided by your cable company?

I would agree that it makes no sense and given I'm now using the most up-to-date drivers in all cases then I would expect it not to be a problem unless there is something to do with a software driver on the mainboard of the portable (possible but unlikely) and as you point out there are no 'Unknown Devices' floating around in Device Manager which implies everything is working properly...

Your earlier post stated that you were connected to the router with WIFi, but no internet connection.

The Windows 10 Os does not and cannot, alter anything in the router. It does no offer drivers for it either.

The biggest culprit, if it happened after an update, is the firewall/Defender.. Try in the first instance, disabling both an see if you have a connection.
Only other option is to clear the cache. In a command prompt type netsh winsock reset .

As you say it works when you roll back the update, then we can assume, without doubt, that there is no software problem with the router.

For some reason the thought about Windows Defender/Firewall hadn't surfaced before. Quite possible it could be this as I use neither in the current version relying on Eset for both issues. It does strike me as odd that WD/F would close off the use of any networks after upgrade and possibly change any 'rules' in place or other make changes to any AV software that is in place before the upgrade.

Yes the wifi seems to connect to the router but does not receive any IP address. Unusual and odd behaviour. I certainly wouldn't expect it to be a software issue on the router side with the new system setup requesting an IP address through DHCP although I do normally run a fixed IP address in my home network on all my devices. The router is running the most up-to-date software available, this is checked regularly.

I'll try to 'upgrade' again and see, will report back...

 

[Tim Barker]

No definitely NOT Windows Defender or ESet antivirus/firewall stopping access. Switched both off and still doesn't work, W/Def not running because ESet was the primary antivirus/firewall anyway, so that was working properly. On top of this tried the winsock reset to no avail (in fact lost even internal network driver access). And confirmation both hardwired network and wifi recognize that the router exists, prior to winsock reset but there is NO internet recognition or internet despite DHCP providing a network address. And Device Manager shows all of the devices as operating properly with working software drivers. Weird...

Back to 180x and forget the 1909 upgrade completely unless an alternative can be shown to work..

 

[Wolfie]

Back to 180x and forget the 1909 upgrade completely unless an alternative can be shown to work

Hi Tim,

a total clean install with the latest version of Win 10 might be the way to go?.

 

[Tim Barker]

Maybe but I don't believe it will work either and I end up with no ability to go back to the current version(?)